Kickers and Kicking - like or hate?

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 3:07 pm

Well , yeah, 20/27 is a pretty decent chance of scoring...

However, I can't see how that makes CPact teams too good - after all, they only have one GR - you only have to deal with him once. And in order to have that 3+/3+(RR) chance, you really need to wipe the other team out like you have now done. After all, you can score a TD with almost a 100% certainty now that he has only 5 players left, so no reason why kicking shouldn't be easy too in that case. Theres still that 7/27 chance that you fail the FG and the ball most probably goes to the other team.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 3:49 pm

That was my thoughts Mestari ... if your opponent only has 5 players, I'd run the GR with defense and take the two turns to score the TD ... unless I REALLY thought I could smash through on Defense and alternate between 1 turn FG on offense and 2 turn TD on defense during the 2nd half.

Galak

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 4:47 pm

If you take the 2 turn TD then he gets a chance to blitz you. I'd rather take the 3+, 3+ then to let somebody blitz my GR. Here's one for all you math magicians out there...
What has better odds?

1. Chancing the blitz? (In the game I'm playing he had the choice to use his ogre for a 3 dice, no block blitz or his berserker for a 2 dice frenzy blitz with block)

2. Kicking a FG from 9 squares deep. (No TZ, middle of the field)

3. Kicking a FG from 11 squares deep. (No TZ, middle of the field)

Edit: Actually you can forget the ogre question cuz he's dead now too. At first I thought kicking rules wouldn't be balanced with the Pact teams but now I'm starting to think that the Pact teams are far more powerful than I imagined. This is a Norse team that I destroyed in one half! How do you think your `flings would hold up, Tom?

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 6:19 pm

'Mathemagician' is the correct word, I believe... 'Mathemancer' can also be used

Naturally if he could blitz the GR, it'd be different, but with 5 players, I can't imagine how he could manage to blitz him - your linemen can move 6 squares - you can get far enough with them to cover the runner in the first turn and still be able to score in the second.

Otherwise: well done with that ogre, Pariah - and with the entire team too.

Seriously though, what do you attribute your success to?
Did he roll bad, did his coaching simply suck or what?
I'm assuming you coach the Doomville Dephilers, right? How have the three big guys worked? I'm interested to hear what specific aspects of the team you find overpowered.
Personally I'm not so worried about the ST of the players (Khemri has 4 ST5 players with no negskills and yet I hear no-one screaming about it), but about the elves, but that has already been fixed in the MBBL, IIRC. But ST might be an issue too, although the AV7 of the linemen is a clear downside.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 7:42 pm

I find the over all ST IS the overpowered aspect. that and Mighty Blow. The Khemri may 4 ST5 players but they are only MA3. That means once they go they don't do much but get up and get blocked again or just simply avoided. Not only that but the Khemri linemen don't start with Block. In the future I plan on buying a Chaos Warrior and a Black Orc Blocker and maybe a Norse Blitzer. That will give me 5 players at ST 4+ and a 6th ST 4+ player if I blitz with a beastman.
The 3 big guys have worked extremely well! Most of my casualties have come from them. He did manage to hurt my troll but regen kicked in just in time.

I know that all of this is not from my team being unbalanced. The kick off result was Blitz, and the weather is pouring rso he had a little trouble picking up the ball.
I have seen whole team's wiped out before but never in one half. It might be different if I was facing halfings or goblins but this entire team has block! We are on turn 2 of the 2nd half and he has 3 players left out of 12. The last time I saw something like this was when we play tested the original vampire team. By the end of the game I should be playing an empty field.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 7:49 pm

Pariah,

Could it also be that Piotr is a fairly rookie coach???

I'll have to review the match ... but methinks I'll see a rookie coach playing an experienced one with the dice gods in your favor.

Galak

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Sun Oct 20, 2002 7:56 pm

If you say so. I think he's had a little bad luck but the only rookie mistake I see is that he fouled with his blitzer. (Hell I still do that stupid mistake!) He has scored 2 casualties on me. lol

keith_reed · Post by **keith_reed** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 12:32 am

Personally, I don't mind the kicking rules. When we started using them, we used the ST number for distance instead of the then AG for distance on the kick. It just didn't seem natural to use AG for distance. I don't think they are a bad addition at all. However, that opinion is based on what type of "football" you prefer.

This makes the game more like Austrailian Rules Football than anything else. It certainly won't appeal as well to Rugby fans who prefer the game to maintain that flair.

Interestingly, several Americans dislike this rule. I thought this would make it more like American Football and bring more appeal. Go figure.

I don't really see how it(the kicking rule) could favor one team over another. Poor agility equates to a slimmer chance of a straight kick. Poor strength and it won't go very far. Few players have good ST and AG numbers already.

Our league, we have had five attempts and three successes in 23 games. Not many attempts, but some success. Most attempts are on the last turn of the half/game for the team attempting. In this case, it is a good thing because they didn't have the distance to score a TD.

Best field goal to date: dwarf team (0-9) has time running out in the half. Handoff to Ogre who sprints left around the defenders, moves back to the right into the center section of the field,but still on the extreme left of the true center of the field. He kicks, straight as an arrow and rolls a six. He drills a FG from 8 blocks out. A FG distance record to date. Unfortunately, the dwarves lost 9-2.

Ghost of Pariah · Post by **Ghost of Pariah** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 12:46 am

I don't really see how it(the kicking rule) could favor one team over another. Poor agility equates to a slimmer chance of a straight kick. Poor strength and it won't go very far. Few players have good ST and AG numbers already.

Well, a high MA means less St is needed doesn't it? Who needs a better roll? The beastman kicker with MA 6 ST 3 AG 3 or the Woodelf catchers with MA 9 ST 2 and AG 4?

Hmmn. The teams that score alot already are the ones who have the advantage. OK. That can be fair but what ability is used to block the kick? Uh oh. Suddenly the AG teams have defensive advantage as well as offensive advantage. Mnnn.
I'm really kinda luke warm on the kicking rules by themselves. I'll be curious to see how well a Vamp Lord can kick.

keith_reed · Post by **keith_reed** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 12:55 am

Bigger, faster, stronger usually means a better team all around. I see your point. I just don't think it is a major detriment to the game. Agile teams should be better at blocking kicks. That is the point of taking an agile team with their drawbacks. (Usually weaker armour, lack of strength abilities.)

Sure, faster agile teams will score more points....period. They will also score more touchdowns. However, the same strategy for stopping these teams from scoring touchdowns applies to the kicking as well.

Da Scum · Post by **Da Scum** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 12:57 am

As in interesting aside, Hail Mary works a lot of the way this "Punting" would. In the TBBF one Human team has it, with mixed results. Against the really fast teams it does little, but against an average to slow team it's been devastating. Just when they think they've got him well pinned he "Punts" it deep and his team can easily get down there first. After that the defence is forced to plan for him doing this...meaning the front line is weaker.

If "Kick" allows the same, it would have to be "end of turn action".

Just my two denarii's worth.

keith_reed · Post by **keith_reed** » Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:24 am

A FG action does end the kicking team's turn. Our league has experienced the use of the hail mary "punt" tactic a few times as well. You're right. It can be devastating for a slow team that does not have someone deep enough to cover the bounced ball.