If only they hadn't released Von Drakenborg....

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Ithilkir
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If only they hadn't released Von Drakenborg....

Post by Ithilkir »

Anyone get the feeling that there wouldn't be quite the same amount of 'problems' with rookie vampires if they hadn't actually created Von Drakenborg to start with and just had a Star Ghoul and Ramtut or something instead? :)

Vampires were supposed to be dreadful blood bowl players.. Not uber ones :(

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

Just finished my first game with the COFAB rules for a Vampire team. Very Very Balanced. I loved it. Cannot recommend it enough. Makes the Vampires a nice addition to the game.

Luthor is Fine ... just use the COFAB rules and Vampires are balanced neither Uber or Worthless.

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Post by Ithilkir »

Heheh, ah well, guess I'm just a sucker for 2e fluff :)

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Post by BullBear »

Pardon my ignorance, but what's COFAB??

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

BullBear wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but what's COFAB??
Cervidal's Off for a Bite = COFAB

Take the team from BB Mag #4 and change the Off for a Bite trait to read as follows:

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A player with this characteristic must occasionally feed on the blood of the living. At the start of any action (other than going from stunned to prone), roll a d6. On a 2+ the player may carry out the action as normal. On a '1', however, the player is overcome with a desire for blood and must make a Feeding Action. A player taking a Feeding Action may never hold the ball. If they start a feeding action while holding the ball, they immediately drop it. If they enter a square with the ball, they will automatically fail to pick it up. 

Feeding Action: The player may move a number of squares equal to their MA. If the player ends his action standing adjacent to a Thrall from his own team, immediately roll for unmodified injury on that Thrall (the injury to the Thrall will never result in a turnover). If the player does not end his movement next to a Thrall from his own team, then he runs into the Reserves box trying to find pretty maiden groupie to quench his thirst. Place him in the reserves box, this is a turnover.
Has received a lot of approval as a fix for OFAB that could actually make the vampire teams work and have a prayer of being balanced. I just played against a team with 2 Vampires using these rules and felt like the game was very balanced. A late game failed OFAB roll would have cost him the game where it not for a failed GFI on my part. However the team did win so its not too negative of a trait either. Basically, the concensus was that NO off pitch effect could ever balance a Vampire player. Cervidal came up with the best on pitch substitution and its very very easy to use during the game. During our test game, Torg's vampires failed 3 OFAB rules which resulted in 2 Stunned Thralls (one was already stunned from my turn anyway) and one Badly Hurt Thrall.

4 out 5 BB coaches recommend COFAB over BB Mag #4 OFAB to their friends .... :lol:

My league will be running test games with these rules with the hope of getting it official changed next October review.

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Post by Mestari »

They should perhaps still be forced to move before the thralls... just to keep them at an appropriate level

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

Mestari wrote:They should perhaps still be forced to move before the thralls... just to keep them at an appropriate level
To be honest Mestari, I didn't feel that the team was out of line at all playing against it with 2 Vamps. The more Vamps you add the more likely you are to start failing COFAB rolls. I really don't think you need to make it any more complex or negative than it is.

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Post by Dave »

Just proposed it in my league. We played OFAB for about a year now, so i'm interested to see the difference.

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Post by Colin »

I would have to agree with Galak, having played the one match, I found the vamps to be fairly balanced. I won, but just barely. With one vamp lord and 2 regular vamps and the rest thralls, the team only had 3 good players. There were only 3 blown COFAB rolls but, as Galak stated, the more vamps you add, the more chance of blowing the roll and losing thralls.

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Post by Ghost of Pariah »

Well, I have to be the party pooper once again. lol

Im playing against a vampire team right now and he has ripped us up. I'm running the Chaos pact and I've been ripped apart by only 2 teams. Old World and Vampire. (Although I'm about to score on the Vamps he has caused way more casulaties than me.)
Of all the new teams I don't think I like a single one except the Necro team that Galak suggested.
IMO no team should be able to destroy another team right from the get go.

I know that one game is all many of you need but I think ALOT more testing is needed. I've had some very disturbing results so far.

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Post by Thadrin »

I reckon that its alright. Sure, I was robbed of a TD by a bad block roll, but that stuff happens. (I'm playing the Vamps against Pariah). My chance to stop the TD got 86ed by - guess what - a badly timed COFAB roll.

Way more cas? I downed his troll first turn - he still has an ogre and a mino healthy - and thats the only cas thus far. Pariah has pulled my usual trick of loading the KO box. I'm getting real good at that myself. There are only a couple of Thralls left on pitch.

I'd like to try the vamps against a "normal" team before I really decide though. I think the relative lack of skills could really hurt them. As for the pact teams, knock off the High Elves and Dark Elves, limit to one big guy, and I think we're getting somewhere. Chaos become super Bashy, with a little Agility thrown in, Old World a more finesse team with no real strengths beyond the enormous flexibility.

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Post by Mestari »

The problem I see with new teams is as follows:

We already have a number of teams, and their power level certainly varies - although admittedly there is no agreement on what exactly is this order. Let us assume, however, that the teams could be placed in a queue.

When new teams are designed, I've noticed that they usually end up to the top end of the queue for some reason. The chaos pact, khemri, old world and the vamps would (as presented by our beloved GW) certainly take a position amongst the top teams of every league.
And this is wrong - if we keep this philosophy of developing new teams, we will only end up with a a spiral where every new team is more powerful than the other, just to make it more appealing when it comes out.

The teams should be at first designed as a bit less powerful than was originally intended. Then they should be playtested - if they are too weak, then add something. It's much more easy to give something more to a team than to take away something.

Making a new team overpowerful seems to me like a rotten attempt to sell the new figures better as they think that more people will buy them as they are overpowered.

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Post by Ghost of Pariah »

Yeah I was confusing our game with the Old World team I'm playing. We are getting shredded in that game.
I tstill think it's waaaaay too soon to tell if the vamps are ok or not.
I think Mestari is making alot of sense!

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

Pariah wrote:Yeah I was confusing our game with the Old World team I'm playing. We are getting shredded in that game.
I tstill think it's waaaaay too soon to tell if the vamps are ok or not.
I think Mestari is making alot of sense!
And Pariah, I agree with Mestari, but having played against the Vamp team with the COFAB rules now, I didn't find the skill to be any more troublesome to use then Bonehead, and it did screw with his play definitely.

I agree with Mestari that the teams do not need to be powered up ... at the same time I think COFAB by itself is a pretty large power down. Many have argued that it would make the team unpayable. Well I've already seen that with 2 Vamps that just isn't true. I think Thadrin is proably seeing the same. However the roll can be a serious pain, especially when your ball carrying Vamp drops the ball to go feed leaving you scrambling to figure out what to do with the rest of your turn.

I agree it needs more testing, but after seeing it in action for one game, I'm very positive on the belief that this fixes the problem.

By the way, Thadrin ... if you and Pariah are using the newest 2.3 Beta version D ... the COFAB has been automated. Change the OFAB skill to Bloodthirst and it will make all the rolls for you just like Bonehead.

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Post by Mestari »

GalakStarscraper wrote:I agree it needs more testing, but after seeing it in action for one game, I'm very positive on the belief that this fixes the problem.
Let's hope so. However, it could be that we get only one shot at officially fixing the team, so I'd rather have them to be more handicapped, just to be on the safe side. We have room for more underdog teams in addition to halflings and goblins, and the vamps definitely should be one according to the fluff.

Now that I think of it... the fact that Khemri are so powerful could indeed be an attempt to sell those freshly released figs better.

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