Why the necromantic team is unbalanced !!!

DaFrenchCoach · Post by **DaFrenchCoach** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:46 pm

No, it's pressure, I think. Christmas is coming soon, and you should start to recruit some reindeers

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 8:58 pm

Lizardman, amazon and norse teams were all pretty well received, except for the 6 3 3 7 all around stats and the changes made to lizardmen (especially no general skills for the skinks).

DaFrenchCoach · Post by **DaFrenchCoach** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 9:57 pm

Hum... I asked for it, because maybe it's only a quesiton of time... people often dislike changing their habits, so...

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sat Aug 31, 2002 10:22 pm

I think we may have to get used of these teams being around even though they are only "experimental" since GW has bothered to release minis for the Khemri team (I think it's here to stay whether or not it's in the same form as it is now when made "official"). Since it's probably a matter of time (next yea's rules review) that Khemri will be official, there willl undoubtably be some sort of Necromatic undead (without skellies and mummies) to be made oficial along with them. The question is whether the final "official" forms of these teams will be acceptable to the BB community.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 9:11 am

Thadrin wrote: And I'm also completely in agreement with my Finnish colleague - the Khemri roster and those magic Helmets is absolutely AWFUL. Nothing on earth would make me want to use that team,

And in addition, we still don't have a max AG2 roster around.

I played against Khemri (2Blitzrahs, 4 mummies, 6 skelies) yesterday with my newly founded Dwarven team, the "BK Esi-isät". I won 2-1 (or 6-3 as we use the kicking rules).

I've reviewed my earlier suggestion after the game and I think that the team would need skeletons with strength skill access. So my new suggestion would be:

KHEMRI TEAM LIST
Qty Title Cost MA ST AG AV S&T
0-12 Skeletons 30k 5 3 2 7 Regenerate (gen)
0-2 Skel.Blockers 50k 5 3 2 7 Regenerate,Block (gen,st)
0-2 Skel.Runners 50k 6 3 2 7 Regenerate,Sure Hands (gen)
0-4 Mummies 110k 3 5 1 9 Regenerate, Mighty Blow (gen, st)
Re-roll: 70.000 gp

neoliminal · Post by **neoliminal** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:43 pm

DaFrenchCoach wrote:What I want to say: if I've well understood Neo guide lines...

The only guidelines I created were for making a single roster position. I never created guidelines for making teams. Those were made by someone else.

John -

manusate · Post by **manusate** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 2:11 pm

Those I like. No real ballhandlers, and extreme bashing capabilities. Forget about the ball and kill them all. Simple and straightforward.
KHEMRI TEAM LIST
Qty Title Cost MA ST AG AV S&T
0-12 Skeletons 30k 5 3 2 7 Regenerate (gen)
0-4 Tomb Guardians 90k 5 3 2 8 Regenerate, Guard (gen, st)
0-4 Mummies 110k 3 5 1 9 Regenerate, Mighty Blow (gen, st)
Re-roll: 70.000 gp

The current team is almost equally powerful and has no weak point. Plus I hate the magic helmet thing. Really.

Manu

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 3:25 pm

The Tomb Guardians Khemri list I found to be completely evil. 4 guys who start with guard and have access to ST skills, plus 4 ST5 players. All of whom can regenerate.

I don't mind the khemri or the new necro rules. I think they could work out nicely. I'm going to give them a test run to see how they turn out.

As for the Magic Helmets. It's fluff and has no impact on gameplay, ignore it.

Marcus

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 5:26 pm

The Tomb Guardians in Manu's team are far too good. Four players with guard is more than this team should have. The mummies already have enough of strength, if the skeletons would have guard-players giving them support all the time, the team would certainly be too good.
They should have a decent possibility of getting guard for their players, but not a single guard to start with.

Marcus:
Yes the magic helmets can be ignored as fluff, and that's not the main reason. I don't see the point why a skeleton team should have blitzers and throwers almost similar to the human equivalents. I can see the reason why they'd need a few skeletons that are better than the rest, but the ones of the experimental version are no longer skeletons as I see them. Giving a position with sure hands and a position with block and st-access would be much better - the suckers would still be skeletons, and dodging plays couldn't be considered.

DaFrenchCoach · Post by **DaFrenchCoach** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 7:25 pm

Soory Neo, it's a confusion between your article and one on Galak Website. I guess Galak is the author... My apologies to both of you

manusate · Post by **manusate** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 1:52 pm

Well, I like this Khemri teamlist I proposed because it´s very extreme, the best team when comes to smash opponents and the worst when comes to move the ball.
I don´t really think 0-4 Tomb Guardians 90k 5 3 2 8 Regen, Guard (gen, st) are so evil and overpowered... as long as the team doesn´t get any AG 3 players.

Manu

Post by **Thadrin** » Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:14 pm

Just drop their access to strength skills.
I could live with that...or die with that as the case may be.
Noone complained wildly about the old Khemri list - what was so hideously wrong with that list that the botchjob we got in BBMag3 was considered superior?

Norse · Post by **Norse** » Tue Sep 10, 2002 7:28 am

Sorry guys, coming late to this thread due to recent vacation..

I have a couple of problems with the basics here, though not from a balance point of view (I leave those things to Galak) as I have not REALLY looked at the team hard enough..

1) I think asking existing Undead players to ditch their Mummies is basically wrong. This reminds me very much of GWs approach to certain 40K armies where they (rather late in the day) forbade them from having certain troop types or weapon types, even though they had previously released models for that specific purpose. It is not nice. It offends the user community both personally and financially and does little to help GWs image. Having just painted my Mummies (very nicely too may I add!) I am a little

right now...

2) Magic Helmets

Sorry, but this is one of the worst ways GW have ever found to get round new team requirements by making bad fluff instead. Quite simply it is laughably bad, and smacks heavily of ThunderCats for those who ever watched it.. Snarf-Snarf....

OK, my suggestion on this would be along these lines in order to keep the fluff..

From the middle lands of the Warhammer World come the Undead... keep the team exactly as it is and don't cause any further ruckus...

From the cold North come the Vampiric hordes, which should feature 2 Vampires, 2 Werewolves, Ghouls and Zombies...

From the arid South come the Khemri forces, including Mummies (4), Skeletons, Wights and the like..

This way, if a player wants to play a very specified undead team he can chose to go Vampire or Khemri, but if he is happy as things currently are, then he need not change.

Does this sound a bit more reasonable than what is being proposed?

Magic Helmets?

What's next, a Magic Cod-piece of Standing Firm....

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Sep 10, 2002 8:38 am

Norse wrote:What's next, a Magic Cod-piece of Standing Firm....

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Sep 10, 2002 9:29 am

Hi all,
personally I like both of the new teams, and think that they've greatly improved Jervis' track record

The necromantic team looks great.
Galaks suggestion looks great too - but I see no reason to change it.

And about the 11 position players - what's the problem?
The orcs have 15. The lizards have 16 (if you admit that neither a MA8 or ST4 player is a lineman). Heck, if you count the 1 big guy that half of the teams get, then the human team has 11 too.

I also like the new Khemri team.
It looks a lot more balanced than the old one, even if the thought of 4 piling on mummies sends shivers down my spine.
The team has 2 throwers. Not too impressive when they only have access to 2 recievers - who don't even have access to AG skills (like catch/dodge).
The "magic helmets" explanation is lame, but who cares. The stats are fine.

Martin