Fouling on the last turn...

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Wifflebat
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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by Wifflebat »

Digger Goreman wrote: You will similarly see people loose their minds over IP and four minute turns....
I lose my mind a little over turn-marker IPs, because I don't think they're truly necessary--they tend to just be an obnoxious meta-game "gotcha" that happens most when players are most into getting to their turn; that is, during periods of the most intense and fun action. So it seems to exist to frustrate your opponent in a non-game way.

The timer IP is fine by me--it keeps the game fast and lively, as it should be thematically. I'd be unlikely ever to call an opponent on it unless they were slowing things down a lot, though...

EDIT: Having written this, I'm guessing that I've stumbled like a sucker into a topic that's been flamed back and forth a bunch of times. Please don't let me derail the original flamebait thread. :D

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Bakunin
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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by Bakunin »

Heff wrote:People who foul on turn 16 are Eleventh century Anglo Danish Kings.
1014 to about 1040 or so.
Who?

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Heff
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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by Heff »

Bakunin wrote:
Heff wrote:People who foul on turn 16 are Eleventh century Anglo Danish Kings.
1014 to about 1040 or so.
Who?
Actually 1016 to 1035, still not far off for a 30 year old memory. Preceded by Sven Forkbeard and succeeded by Harold Harefoot.
Tried to turn back the tide.

King Cnut

Turn 16 foulers are Cnuts. It gains you nothing and just pisses on your opponents chips. Foul with a point by all means.

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Heff...Keeping the Dwarf (and lego) hate alive
If you cannot stall out for an 8 turn drive to score with dwarves then you need to go and play canasta with your dad..if you can find him.
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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by burgun824 »

Heff wrote:Turn 16 foulers are Cnuts. It gains you nothing and just pisses on your opponents chips. Foul with a point by all means.
I do...the point of my boot. :wink:

I'd go back to my original point, if your opponent has a stat freak super star and you have a legitimate shot on permanently ending him then it is your obligation to the rest of the Blood Bowl community to do so, turn 16 or not.

Stat-freaks and Stars should be targeted with a venomous intent to kill. The couple I've been fortunate enough to play with I've protected as long as possible. And people try to kill them all the time. I don't get mad at them for doing it. I anticipate that it's going to happen. They make winning easier, so you shouldn't be allowed to keep them for too long. If you have a nicer toy than I do then I'm going to try and break your toy. Now granted, that mentality is an awful way to look at things in a day to day perspective, but within the boundaries of the blood bowl pitch it's entirely fair game. And I WILL be happy when I break it...and I WILL gloat. Perhaps not outwardly, but I'm definitely warm and fuzzy about it on the inside.

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Heff
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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by Heff »

But its not even a good strategy. I have to play your stat freak for sixteen turns. I kill him on turn 16 and then gift every other coach in the league an easier game than I just had! why would I do that? All I have done is make their life easier, I want to beat you 5/4 and give you loads of SPPs (but less than me) as long as I win and I have made everybody else's life harder I am happy. By fouling your superstar I have just made your life harder (good) but everybody elses life easier (bad). I don't foul on turn sixteen because I am not an idiot, not because I am a gentleman. You are a cnut not because you have broken some unwritten law, but because you are working against your own interest in a petulant and petty way.

Now if the playoffs are coming up and I am going to meet you next game then the calculation is somewhat different. Should you be dumb enough to believe that I am a gentleman and put your star where I can get to him then I will kerb stomp him into oblivion.

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Heff...Keeping the Dwarf (and lego) hate alive
If you cannot stall out for an 8 turn drive to score with dwarves then you need to go and play canasta with your dad..if you can find him.
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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by Hucker73 »

How embarrassing... All these years I've been spelling it 'King Canute'.

As for turn 16 fouling, if my opponent turn 16 fouls because they've had a totally un-fun game and are venting, I kind of accept it as punishment for not being a fun opponent to play.

If they do it because the dice have been against them all game, or they've played like concussed duckling and are annoyed with themselves then they can go bleeping bleep themselves. Not my fault, don't take it out on my team.

If they do it because they play Goblins, then more power to them, that's how you play Goblins.

Fouling stat-freak superstars is a different conversation. However, i agree with Heff, for the most part, but I would foul a superstar player on turn 16 if 1) there was a bounty on the player and 2) if the playoffs are imminent - I don't want to face that player in a playoff scenario.

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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by frogboy »

Well I've been round and round and round with this argument in my head and I'm still not sure where I stand but I have learned that Blood Bowl seems to have developed over the last few years and since I last played or maybe I was just oblivious to it before. I'm talking about online play here as my foray into the tabletop game re-starts at the end of January.

I just discovered a play book called the 1000 loss play book or something (props to the coach who wrote it as that's some proper in depth stuff) well after giving that a quick browse I've realised that all the frustrating coaches I've faced, all the hyper pro star win at all cost gamers out there seem to follow the style presented in that playbook. The 2-1 stall, if it's the last turn set your players up on the back line and give your opponent no opportunity to have fun gamers. Yes I'm saying it's boring if you play like that and I'm telling you because I agree it's fun to win, it's fun to laugh but its certainly not fun to be ground into the dust for 16 turns.

Come on just score ! What your scared I might score and draw the game. Come on ! I always try to give my opponent a fair run at the title. It's frustrating, I got 4-5 players prone surrounded by players and they still don't score.

We all have frustrating games sometimes, we all have the choice to play how we want, wether that's to win at all cost (usally the cost of your opponent having fun) or to foul every turn. We have the choice not to play at all, if you can't except that players will die and some coaches turn 16 foul and others stall then maybe you shouldnt play at all, insulting people and calling them a Cnut is just ridiculous, it's a game (and meant to be fun) get over it ! Or maybe you can start a thread like this entitled "The Turn 16 Cnut"

See you all on the gridiron, after all that's what is important here. HF & GL :orc:
frogboy

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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by besters »

Hucker73 wrote:How embarrassing... All these years I've been spelling it 'King Canute'.
Modern English as opposed to variation on the original Danish I suspect.

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Heff
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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by Heff »

Normally I will do it with a big smile on my face.

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Heff...Keeping the Dwarf (and lego) hate alive
If you cannot stall out for an 8 turn drive to score with dwarves then you need to go and play canasta with your dad..if you can find him.
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Fouling on the last turn...

Post by TalonBay »

Thinking about stat freaks in particular, if I see the coach as a main rival then fouling is strategically sound if I can weaken him for the rest of the season. If the coach isn't a big threat then I'm less likely to foul, I'd rather he was stronger for the rest of the games.

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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by Glowworm »

Hucker73 wrote: If they do it because they play Goblins, then more power to them, that's how you play Goblins.

.
This.... :D

I have no problem with fouling, or being fouled....what I have a problem with (as I vented at a recent tournament) is people who foul and apologise, then foul and apologise....rinse & repeat.....

If you foul that's fine, kill a player, that's fine, just don't apologise and then do the same thing over & over again, you come across as insincere and a bit of a dick......

...and to the list of people who will play me next year and now apologise as they think it will somehow disrupt the master plan I've devised to win all my games, good luck with that, you dick :wink:

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Heff
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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by Heff »

So let me get this straight

if I stall - I am ruining your fun
If I don't give you the opportunity to foul my best player into the dirt pointlessly - I am ruining your fun
If I play to maximise my chance of winning by running down the clock - I am ruining your fun.

Lets turn this around

If I don't stall on you - clearly you are such a poor coach that I can beat you anyway,
If I give you the chance to foul my superstar - I am clearly an idiot who you can beat easily, ever thought I might be protecting my team so that I can have a fun game NEXT TIME.
If I don't control the clock when I have the ball - Then clearly I am a fool that you can beat easily.

You know what, getting stalled on, getting ground out, and people minimising the chance of you hurting their players is a sign that you are getting better. You are worrying them so they are trying to stop you from getting the ball and winning the game. You then follow this compliment by turn sixteen fouling then in that specific you are indeed in my world a Cnut.

Back in the day (about 4 years ago) I was complaining about some aspect of the game and Jimmy Fantastic came along with the piece of advice that annoyed me no end at the time but turned out to be right (and as we all know Jimmy is always right) he said "Learn to play better". People try to shut you out of games cos you know what you are doing, its a compliment, take it as such.

Reason: ''
Heff...Keeping the Dwarf (and lego) hate alive
If you cannot stall out for an 8 turn drive to score with dwarves then you need to go and play canasta with your dad..if you can find him.
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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by Digger Goreman »

And the faux morality play continues.... Cnuts calling others Cnuts because of their Cnut view of what narrowly defines cnuttery....

Too funny, gamewise.... Societally HILARIOUS!

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Heff
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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by Heff »

Digger Goreman wrote:And the faux morality play continues.... Cnuts calling others Cnuts because of their Cnut view of what narrowly defines cnuttery....

Too funny, gamewise.... Societally HILARIOUS!
Pretty much, its what we do for giggles :lol:

So Digger what is your view on Elves again?

Reason: ''
Heff...Keeping the Dwarf (and lego) hate alive
If you cannot stall out for an 8 turn drive to score with dwarves then you need to go and play canasta with your dad..if you can find him.
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Re: Fouling on the last turn...

Post by frogboy »

@heff, Well I guess if you weren't calling me a Cnut I might have thought about taking you seriously.

Perhaps one day I'll play some more games where I feel that both coaches are having fun, but until then I guess I'll keep playing these complementary coaches, you know the ones, the type of game where I'm so bored its all I can do not to keep clicking the turnover button. Another 4 turns to go, I'm rolling my remaining players over, stall, click, stall, click...

This guy must be used to playing with himself...

:roll:

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I'm a British Freebooter, will play for any team including Undead (I have my own Apothecary). Good rates.
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