Piling On

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon May 20, 2002 12:32 pm

Hi all,
AFAIK I'm not the only one who thinks that Piling On after you have seen the result of the armor roll, makes Piling on too good.
I hope that the BBRC will do something about this.

However, rather than making PiOn a "special case" that breaks with the general rule, why not introduce some other kind of weakness in the skill.

2 suggestions:
1. If you use piling on, then you are not allowed to add an injury modifier. (You're flattening the guy, not fighting him properly).

or
2. Piling On will get the refs Eye On You. (You can't be sent off for piling on, but your opponent will get a good shot at punishing you).

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Mon May 20, 2002 12:46 pm

Sorry, I have to say that I like Piling on just the way it is, same with diving tackle.

For the record I have no players with either skill at the moment, but I feel that it is better this way and will gain this skill for my players in the normal way of things,

I cannot see this being used as much as claw/RSC and will you advocate a sending off for their use too?

our league has now played 19 games with the new rules and have found ourselves with 70 casualties (38BH, 25SI & 7 Dead) no one has Piling on. It is the armour 7 teams that are suffering and they need this as an equaliser, the only coach who is seriously considering it is the Amazon coach in our league who is fed up playing dwarves and Orcs and rolling 7-8 on Armour rolls.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon May 20, 2002 12:52 pm

Hi "Voyagers",
I didn't advocate that it could get you sent off - just that it would move the IGMEOY counter.

In my league, all big guys take PiOn as their first skill. Watch the carnage.

IMO, Piling On used to be a very good skill.
Then - it became more important, as mighty blow was changed.
And - even better since there is no longer the risk of failure.
Too good IMO (and othersO).

Also - I don't agree that it helps the softie teams. Sure - they can take it on doubles for a few players. But it's the chaos/dwarf team with PiOn+MBlow on "every" player that gets the most bang for their buck.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon May 20, 2002 1:01 pm

The more I see PoN and DT used after the dice roll the more I am in favor of them staying that way ... and I was on of the guys that screamed the loudest against it at first (sorry Chet, my bad).

I've seen the numbers and yes it makes Piling On better, but not great. If you have ST players (other than Dwarves) taking it before Block, I'm amazed ... its not THAT good.

My two cents are when October comes around I really, really hope the BBRC just leaves PoN and DT alone (ESPECIALLY DT!!!!!)

Galak

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon May 20, 2002 1:14 pm

Dont forget even if all the big guys get pile on , most of them (based ont which ones are most available to most teams) still have bonehead which can not be removed. I also cant see most of the strongest ones (i.e. treemen) taking it. Now as for the wild animals well i dont know what to tell u. IMO wild animal is currently not much of bad thing really, at least once u can manage to get 1 advance and block, which greatly reduces the chances of your guy falling over and causing a turnover. There should not be that many big guys anyways with only 1 per team now. Summation . . . Pile on after the roll is better but, still either worth it or not, based entirely on your own personal opinion.[/u]

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Mon May 20, 2002 1:15 pm

No worries Plas-baby

In my league I run Dwarves and am 9-1-0, I have accounted for 18BH 12SI and all 7 dead without POn which would be overkill

I read some posts by Chet a while back talking about being one dimensional in rosters and skill choices and try to keep my teams different with personality so although there will be a few with Guard and Mighty Blow they will not be skills given to everyone.

Some people can be a bit beardy about things and go all out to crucify weaker teams, but I have found that you lose friends that way.

anyway
good topic

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon May 20, 2002 1:15 pm

Dont forget even if all the big guys get pile on , most of them (based ont which ones are most available to most teams) still have bonehead which can not be removed. I also cant see most of the strongest ones (i.e. treemen) taking it. Now as for the wild animals well i dont know what to tell u. IMO wild animal is currently not much of bad thing really, at least once u can manage to get 1 advance and block, which greatly reduces the chances of your guy falling over and causing a turnover. There should not be that many big guys anyways with only 1 per team now. Summation . . . Pile on after the roll is better but, still either worth it or not, based entirely on your own personal opinion.[/u]

Acerak · Post by **Acerak** » Mon May 20, 2002 4:16 pm

Martin - Don't you allow extra Big Guys in your league? I thought you did.

If you think Piling On is too powerful - and you're shooting from the hip, while some others have seen it in action - just force the Piling On player to go Stunned rather than Prone. Problem solved, no shifting IGMEOY, no exceptions for adding injury modifiers.

But me, I think it's just fine. Yes, those Norse Blitzers get right damn annoying with that Jump Up, Piling On combo. But look at the team! It's a gimmick on four guys. It's not going to cripple your league.

Cheers!

-Chet

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Wed May 22, 2002 12:39 pm

Hi Chet (and All),

>Don't you allow extra Big Guys in your league? I thought you did.
Not anymore

>If you think Piling On is too powerful - and you're shooting from the hip, >while some others have seen it in action
[snip]

Shooting from the hip?:-?
I've played with the old piling on for many years, and consider any improvement to it very problematic.

I polled my own league on this since last. Nobody wanted Piling On to be any better!

> - just force the Piling On player to go Stunned rather than Prone. >Problem solved, no shifting IGMEOY, no exceptions for adding injury >modifiers.

One coach suggested making piling on an armor roll reroll, if you choose to lie down. I kind of liked that

Also, disallowing it to combine with injury modifiers would kill my/their concern.

>But me, I think it's just fine. Yes, those Norse Blitzers get right damn >annoying with that Jump Up, Piling On combo. But look at the team! It's >a gimmick on four guys. It's not going to cripple your league.

Let me explain.
I don't consider Piling On to be "broken" in and of itself.
IMO, it breaks when combined with injury modifiers.
Piling On has become better on 2 fronts, both the "after the roll", and the ability to combine even better with (the new) mighty blow.

The problem is when it combines with mighty blow or fang.
This is very very (i.e. too) efficient.

Martin

Trambi · Post by **Trambi** » Wed May 22, 2002 2:34 pm

In my mind, you should declare to use Piling on before make the armor roll.

Please no addition of bonus to armor roll

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Sat Jun 01, 2002 12:59 pm

BB is a violent game and the running teams need skills like piling on to make them able to win and compete against the Elven boys natural skill. I say its fine. DD.

Zy-Nox · Post by **Zy-Nox** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:57 am

The only time I've seen piling on used to great effect is when combined with jump up and mighty blow,which is common on Norse blitzers.
Being placed prone is enough of a penalty,as people I play against target your better/annoying players.Piling on puts your player down without your opponent even having to block and in my experience that player will be getting fouled in the following turn

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:14 pm

Zy nox foul all u want with the new rules, i doubt u will accomplish anything, i have seen alot of fouling with the new rules and im not scared by it in the least.
Plasmoid wow, people complain about Galak's league, but at least he doesnt change the rules or delete players because they may be good at what they do. Sorry but big guys are made to do one thing and one thing only, hit hard and cause casualties while doing it. As for combining Pile on with other skills, well combining skills/stats to work together is the basis behind almost all good players/teams. I do understand the frustration of trying to play a finesse team in a hitting league but that doesnt make it fair to change the system to help the weaker teams.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 5:32 pm

Hi Sean,
I hope we can agree on this:
*Technically, it is possible that a skill is too powerful.
*If so, the skill should be changed, no matter to which kinds of team said change is detrimental.

I can assure you that my complaining about Piling On has nothing to do with me running an unsuccesful finesse team.

As soon as I heard about the new Piling On rules, I posted this question on our message board: Would anyone like to see piling on made better?

Not one of our 36 coaches considered an improvement a good idea.
Martin

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 7:25 pm

How many wanted to test it first?

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