Register    Login    Forum    FAQ

Board index » Blood Bowl » House Rules forum




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:28 pm 
Rookie
Rookie
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:59 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Minneapolis, Mn
The Piling On skill was changed in BB 2016 because of the severe advantage CLAWPOMB/POMB confer and the Specialist studio changed it to try to balance the game.

But a lot of long time Blood Bowlers don't agree with this. They feel that the changes are too severe and make piling on un-usable and give too much of an advantage back to non-bashy teams. Instead of using the BB 2016 version, a lot of leagues and tournaments have ignored the change to piling on, and are still using the CRP version, my own included.

I would like to propose a change to the CRP version that still allows you to make good use of the skill, but also includes an element of risk that might help mitigate overuse.

Rule as is in the CRP:

Piling On (Strength)
The player may use this skill after he has made a block as part of one of his Block or Blitz Actions, but only if the Piling On player is currently standing adjacent to the victim and the victim was Knocked Down. You may re-roll the Armour roll or Injury roll for the victim. The Piling On player is Placed Prone in his own square -- it is assumed that he rolls back there after flattening his opponent (do not make an Armour roll for him as he has been cushioned by the other player!). Piling On does not cause a turnover unless the Piling On player is carrying the ball.Piling On cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw skill.

Proposed change in lieu of BB2016 rules change:

Piling On
(Strength)
The player may use this skill after he has made a block as part of one of his Block or Blitz Actions, but only if the Piling On player is currently standing adjacent to the victim and the victim was Knocked Down. You may re-roll the Armour roll or Injury roll for the victim. The Piling On player is Placed Prone in his own square -- it is assumed that he rolls back there after flattening his opponent (do not make an Armour roll for him as he has been cushioned by the other player unless your re-roll comes up doubles, then you must make an unmodified armor roll for your player as well, as they smash into the ground!). Piling On does not cause a turnover unless the Piling On player is carrying the ball.Piling On cannot be used with the Stab or Chainsaw skill.

_________________
Violence; whomever said it isn't a solution obviously wasn't using enough.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:36 am 
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:11 pm
Posts: 73
Not quite sure it discourages its usage enough.. Most PO heavy users are bashy teams, so that will be 1/6 chance for, say, a Dwarf to roll unmodified armor roll. They are pretty resistant to those :) On the other hand, it will harm more hybrid teams relying on it atm, those with average AV, like Humans or Norse.

May be something extremely stupid and easy instead? Like, just limit PO usage to once per turn, for the whole team (without need to spend TRR). At least, people will be taking the skill now (as there is no need to carry excessive TRRs now as well), but will not be giving it to half+ of the team, just to a couple of "designated killers" instead. So it will add more emphasis to a good positioning, both for attacker and a defender, first trying to place those few players with PO closer to desired target, second trying to achieve quite the opposite.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:46 am 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:52 am
Posts: 35
Location: Finland
My suggestion is, that Piling On would be as it was before, but with extra d6 roll similar to Going for it would be added. Every time when you use Piling On you have to roll D6 and if the result is 1, you get stunned. (PO player gets tangled to the opponent or his head gets hit in the process and he needs extra turn to get up).


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:30 am 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:24 pm
Posts: 413
Simolekyyli wrote:
My suggestion is, that Piling On would be as it was before, but with extra d6 roll similar to Going for it would be added. Every time when you use Piling On you have to roll D6 and if the result is 1, you get stunned. (PO player gets tangled to the opponent or his head gets hit in the process and he needs extra turn to get up).


I like this very much. But I would do it if the RR comes up a double to avoid an extra dice roll.

If you use PO to RR and the second result is a double you are stunned. Easy, smooth, takes no extra roll, sounds perfect.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:40 am 
Da Spammer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:04 pm
Posts: 23664
Location: Fundamentaling for the BB Illuminati
If PO was a problem (in relation to pomb/clawpomb) I'd go with the suggestion that the PO reroll (only) is counted as foul and the player gets sent off if it is a double.

But PO isn't an issue as far as I've seen*, so I'll stick with the CRP version.

* It 'might' be an issue in digital MM, but even that's not proven.

_________________
SWTC 2017 Stunty Cup winner - never again (until next time!)

Khorne and Bretonnian? Sorry, those don't exist - bring a real roster.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:23 pm 
Rookie
Rookie
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:59 pm
Posts: 16
Location: Minneapolis, Mn
We are having this same (although a bit more lively discussion) on the Blood Bowl Community FB page.

Someone suggested leaving PO the same as it is in CRP, but only allowing it to be used if the Defender Down Pow result is rolled.

_________________
Violence; whomever said it isn't a solution obviously wasn't using enough.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:01 pm 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:52 am
Posts: 35
Location: Finland
Rolex wrote:
Simolekyyli wrote:
My suggestion is, that Piling On would be as it was before, but with extra d6 roll similar to Going for it would be added. Every time when you use Piling On you have to roll D6 and if the result is 1, you get stunned. (PO player gets tangled to the opponent or his head gets hit in the process and he needs extra turn to get up).


I like this very much. But I would do it if the RR comes up a double to avoid an extra dice roll.

If you use PO to RR and the second result is a double you are stunned. Easy, smooth, takes no extra roll, sounds perfect.


Yeah, avoiding doubles would do the job as well (probability is also the same 1/6).

I would vote for this change! Having a chance to backfire would make players think more when to use piling on.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:53 pm 
Legend
Legend
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 05, 2002 9:55 am
Posts: 5138
Location: Copenhagen
AFAIK on TFF there hasn't been much talk of "wanting CRP-PiOn back"
Maybe I haven't been keeping up, but this strikes me as the first such post in a very long while.
I'm not sure people miss it all that much.
Cheers
Martin

_________________
Narrow Tier BB? http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/NTBB.htm
Or just visit http://www.plasmoids.dk instead


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:44 pm 
Da Spammer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 10:04 pm
Posts: 23664
Location: Fundamentaling for the BB Illuminati
Maybe because most people on TFF have kept CRP PO as standard, so don't "need it back"?

_________________
SWTC 2017 Stunty Cup winner - never again (until next time!)

Khorne and Bretonnian? Sorry, those don't exist - bring a real roster.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:50 pm 
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2003 2:22 pm
Posts: 275
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Really? Where'd you get those numbers from?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:30 pm 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:39 am
Posts: 460
Location: Norsca
The POW solution is best IMO.

_________________
Image


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:04 am 
Emerging Star
Emerging Star

Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:21 pm
Posts: 428
Still think I have the best answer.

"Pile on requires great strength or momentum to perform. Only ST5 or above players or those following up with a second strike (frenzy) may perform this manoeuvre".

Not only does it give the big guys an extra pick and buff, it gives that Khorne team some true fluff in that a bit of kill factor.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:38 am 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:44 am
Posts: 43
How about?

Quote:
If you do not break the armor on the reroll place the pile on player stunned.


Not breaking armor does not sound like a cushion to me. It would be interesting to know all the options they considered when changing pilling on. I suspect they just banned it and made the optional piling on less usable.

I agree with Darkson. The debate is mostly settled. New leagues from BB2016 does require a reroll. Some existing leagues made the change, others did not change.

In my league, you have to use a reroll with piling on if you are below the arctic circle, while no reroll is required if you are up north.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:45 am 
Rookie
Rookie

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 8:44 am
Posts: 43
harvestmouse wrote:
"Pile on requires great strength or momentum to perform. Only ST5 or above players or those following up with a second strike (frenzy) may perform this manoeuvre".



You probably know that it used to be that with pilng on you added the players strength to the armor roll. That was pretty good, but no one really used it where I played, outside of the odd troll slayer. The rule was made before you could have rookie big guys the mumie (with MA3) was really the worst player you would encounter.

Would add half strength to the armor roll rounded down work? (Was the original rule have been adding half strength?)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Piling On 2016 un-nerf
 Post Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:22 pm 
Experienced
Experienced

Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2017 2:11 pm
Posts: 73
I actually like these ideas a lot, especially those which use this opportunity to enhance Big Guys a bit, making them a more viable option in competitive lineups for any team at any TV.

Something like "PO only on POW, unless the player is a Frenzy player knocking down defender at his second block OR a Big Guy player (Mummies and the like including)" (limiting it to just Frenzy players or Big Guys is also an option). Would be a nice shift in paradigm, limiting attrition to some extent, while at the same time increasing usefulness of Big Guys. Coupled with, say, idea of giving Big Guys ability to negate Block skill while blitzing, this has very good potential to ensure them a place in any competitive roster.

Giving some bonus to armor/injury roll if PO is used by Big Guy based on ST difference may also be a nice buff, though may be already a bit OP? As proposed above, STdiff/2 (rounded down), perhaps? For a general case it will be (5-3)/2 = 1, i.e. +1 bonus to either armor or injury roll.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index » Blood Bowl » House Rules forum


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to: