Narrow Tier BB - 2012

[dode74]

I like plasmoid's new PO as well.

I am still a bit hung up on this Horns issue. Does anyone see much of a CPOMB issue with Pact teams? The box stats seem to show a much lower casualty rate for pact...

[koadah]

I like plasmoid's new PO as well.

I am still a bit hung up on this Horns issue. Does anyone see much of a CPOMB issue with Pact teams? The box stats seem to show a much lower casualty rate for pact...

Depends on whether you min max them or not. Many people don't.

[dode74]

The same is true of any team, is it not?

[koadah]

The same is true of any team, is it not?

Does anyone see much of a CPOMB issue with Pact teams?

Well, most teams don't have access to claw at all and others don't have normal access to POMB.

Chaos, Nurgle and chaos dwarves do NOT need to be min/maxed to be very, very nasty.

Some people think pact are meant to be useless and take three big guys. Some people think that they will be ultra efficient min/maxers if they go all marauders and one elf. (not wasting TV on a lot of horns when they can only use one set per turn).

[DoubleSkulls]

Maybe its just a function of the other attributes of the team. e.g. if you are reliant on your Big Guys you are losing 1/6 and until you get Block a lower chance of a knockdown, combined with the rest of the team being Av8 or lower and hence less resilient than Chaos/Nurgle making it harder for their CLPOMB players to survive.

[voyagers_uk]

slight derailment aside,

it is a shame that mutations are not random, as that would decrease the amount of claw taken and increase other skills / team management and open the other aspects of the game up.

I know Darkson and i have both mentioned this in the past, but it could resolve the problems without having to adjust any skills. plus just be plain fluffy and hearken back to 2ed.

[Tourach]

... plus just be plain fluffy and hearken back to 2ed.

not plain, but painfully fluffy. Why would you have skill category no one (in their right mind) would choose from. perhaps for as first skill? And it would not solve anything if skills where unbalanced, they would still be unbalanced just harder to get...

[garion]

slight derailment aside,

it is a shame that mutations are not random, as that would decrease the amount of claw taken and increase other skills / team management and open the other aspects of the game up.

I know Darkson and i have both mentioned this in the past, but it could resolve the problems without having to adjust any skills. plus just be plain fluffy and hearken back to 2ed.

Yes yes yes yes, this + 1 million. They should never have moved from random imo. Though they would all need to be better, except claw, tentacles and two heads. But I covered this in my rules really. I like Darksons mutations rules as well, though I think there are too many dud ones in his list.

[DoubleSkulls]

I think the problem with random mutations is that it would probably just mean everyone avoiding them. Why take a 1/10 chance of getting the skill you want when you can just take from your normal skill groups?

[garion]

By making them all good. So people would take them as a first or second skill and build that player around their mutation.

Also if you give them something to aim for e.g. Claw + RSC

There could be lots of good reasons. Mutations at the moment are just horribly one dimensional and mostly rubbish, address that and it would not only be great fun, it would fit their fluff more and could be very powerful with a bit of luck. Their fluff says they are the most colourful and interesting teams because of their mutations, in 2nd ed that was likely the case. Not so much now though.

[dode74]

Maybe its just a function of the other attributes of the team. e.g. if you are reliant on your Big Guys you are losing 1/6 and until you get Block a lower chance of a knockdown, combined with the rest of the team being Av8 or lower and hence less resilient than Chaos/Nurgle making it harder for their CLPOMB players to survive.

The number of dice you get on a block (and therfore the ST you block with) has a massive impact on the casualty odds (1d with block vs block = 33% chance of knockdown, 2d = 55%, which is a 66% increase on the odds of even getting to make the AV roll), and it is those I am talking about rather than survival rates.

[Chris]

Would never work. Too many skills aren't suitable for a player. You have goblins, skaven, beastmen and chaos warriors (well and big guys and rotters). Some skills just don't work with some of those players (look, I have 2 heads and long legs on my beast of nurgle!). All it means is that you take it for the first skill and cut the player if its no good. Favours online perpetual play (some already do that seeking doubles for their big guys) at the expense of short leagues.

[garion]

@Dode - If you have a problem with horns the easy and best thing to do is put them back to lrb4 version, that was perfect. It meant you could tie them up with a wall of Guard if you had the players built that way and they couldnt escape it with a Blitz. Because they had to move 1 square before blitzing.

i remeber many a game where you would tie up the nasty Chaos Claw guy this way and force them to make a dodge then run back at you to make a blitz then laugh at them when they fell over in a perfect spot for a foul lol.

But I dont think Plasmoid is interested in this sort of nerf, he just wants the smallest possible change with a better outcome than what we are all playing at the moment. Which I think he already has really.

Would never work. Too many skills aren't suitable for a player. You have goblins, skaven, beastmen and chaos warriors (well and big guys and rotters). Some skills just don't work with some of those players (look, I have 2 heads and long legs on my beast of nurgle!). All it means is that you take it for the first skill and cut the player if its no good. Favours online perpetual play (some already do that seeking doubles for their big guys) at the expense of short leagues.

....and it could if said skills were improved. Look at lrb4 VLL. I would love my BoN to have +1Ma. Yeah Two Heads wouldnt be great, but wouldn't you like to take the risk if you could possibly get RSC on him? Also how often does a BoN take muations at the moment? Never ever, except for the predictable Claw, but even then the vast majority rightly take Block on a double for this player anyway. Most players that could get mutations can make great use for all of them with a few small buffs to the rubbish mutations. Your right though, it wouldnt work with mutations in their current state, but thats because most of them are just not very good.

[voyagers_uk]

@Garion, I will have read your rules again...

this one post game team management mechanic change could resolve a lot of issues and make Chaos/Nurgle/CD teams more interesting to play against.

As Garion says, the mutations would have to be buffed in some cases, but that would be good as some never get taken as it is. Also Bring back Spikes!

[voyagers_uk]

also, why not allow coaches to challenge themselves with the random nature of the skill choices, I can imagine as an elf coach that it would be nasty to face a bunch of beastmen who had landed a mixture of Disturbing Presence and prehensile tail....

or underworld goblins with VLL and Catch.

this way it wouldn't just be Tier 3 teams that challenged a coach, but some of the races listed on the last pages of the rulebook again