Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
Moderator: TFF Mods
-
- Veteran
- Posts: 225
- Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:01 pm
- Location: Calgary
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
https://fumbbl.com/modules.php?op=modlo ... =26&page=5
interesting read considering recent tone of the thread
interesting read considering recent tone of the thread
Reason: ''
Coach of the Fancy Lads
Blood Bowl League of Calgary
http://twitter.com/bloodbowlcgy
@dsavillian on twitter
It's called Blood Bowl, not Fun Bowl
Blood Bowl League of Calgary
http://twitter.com/bloodbowlcgy
@dsavillian on twitter
It's called Blood Bowl, not Fun Bowl
-
- Ex-Cyanide/Focus toadie
- Posts: 2565
- Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:55 pm
- Location: Near Reading, UK
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
At what point did he do that? All I saw was a reference to the required win%.cbbakke wrote:here you go again," Galak said galak said". We are talking about the future of the game not the past.
As for the testing of various skills within the context of an incorrect skillset I remind you of this:
viewtopic.php?p=614190#p614190cbbake wrote:I think the hard thing about discussing blood bowl is that the game is so complex that it is hard to talk about one issue in a bubble because so many things are inner [sic] twined and effect each other.
dsavillian - interesting read
Reason: ''
-
- Cupcake
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:53 pm
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
it is a complex game which is why it is why the threads have several issues going on at once.
That doesn't mean you cant discuss a topic, it just means you have to try to see the big picture of how things all play together. The bank rule has little effect on talking about the issue of damage skills stacking for example. Where the bank rule would have a far bigger effect if your talking about spiraling expenses.
Are you still using the win % based on MM games? I thought we agreed long ago those were a bad set of games to pull data from
That doesn't mean you cant discuss a topic, it just means you have to try to see the big picture of how things all play together. The bank rule has little effect on talking about the issue of damage skills stacking for example. Where the bank rule would have a far bigger effect if your talking about spiraling expenses.
Are you still using the win % based on MM games? I thought we agreed long ago those were a bad set of games to pull data from
Reason: ''
-
- Ex-Cyanide/Focus toadie
- Posts: 2565
- Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:55 pm
- Location: Near Reading, UK
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
Agree.it is a complex game which is why it is why the threads have several issues going on at once.
Disagree. The bank rules will make it harder for high AV teams to recover from games where they have taken multiple casualties due to damage skills stacking. It won't have as great an effect on low AV teams as they always take lots of casualties and rarely have any cash anyway. Complex game, like you sayThe bank rule has little effect on talking about the issue of damage skills stacking for example.
ALL of PC-based BB is a poor place to pull data from for the reasons stated. None of the leagues (which are better but still not great) have produced sufficient data (i.e. 4k+ games, although I'd prefer nearer 40k) for me to even bother putting together data. When producing stats for FOL I do try to note that they are FOL-only stats and not indicative of CRP BB. If, however, even the piss-poor context of badly-ruled TV-based MM is producing data that is in or close to the win% bracket then I think that is indicative of the robustness of the rules.Are you still using the win % based on MM games? I thought we agreed long ago those were a bad set of games to pull data from
Reason: ''
-
- Emerging Star
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:26 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
cbbakke wrote: Are you still using the win % based on MM games? I thought we agreed long ago those were a bad set of games to pull data from
Nope. Galak didn't have that data as those leagues were not running at that time.
When the data was eventually run it just happened to match the data gathered from elsewhere.
That might partly explain why some people are more likely to listen to Galak than most of the other 'experts'.
Reason: ''
- Darkson
- Da Spammer
- Posts: 24047
- Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 9:04 pm
- Location: The frozen ruins of Felstad
- Contact:
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
That's cos Mr. Goo is a very sensible person (if to tall).dsavillian wrote:https://fumbbl.com/modules.php?op=modlo ... =26&page=5
interesting read considering recent tone of the thread
Reason: ''
Currently an ex-Blood Bowl coach, most likely to be found dying to Armoured Skeletons in the frozen ruins of Felstad, or bleeding into the arena sands of Rome or burning rubber for Mars' entertainment.
- spubbbba
- Legend
- Posts: 2269
- Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:42 pm
- Location: York
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
I think cbbakke does make some valid points, unfortunately they tend to get lost in all the tedious arguing with dode74 (seriously guys, do us all a favour and book a hotel room and resolve your tensions that way).
If there ever was to be a lrb7 then I do think online play should be factored in, either to the main ruleset or a section devoted to TV based random match ups. Whilst the game was designed to be played in small tabletop leagues it has since evolved and between the various online versions there are over 2 million games played (maybe over 3). I am sure there are far more online games that TT ones played every day and many of those TT ones will be in tournaments which are filled with various house rules anyway.
Now Cyandie and FUMBBL are both pretty close to being fully lrb compliant over the next couple of years we will have access to a huge amount of data that can be broken down and analysed. I always had an issue with the data used to balance lrb6 as I felt the sample was a bit small and not detailed enough as it did not show the TV used or the races played against.
This would have been fine if it was used as a indicator, but sadly with such a small sample there were some aberrations. The horrible nerfing of Khemri for being too good at winning and the silly jump in Necros win rate from the insignificant 10K price drop to golems both spring to mind.
If there ever was to be a lrb7 then I do think online play should be factored in, either to the main ruleset or a section devoted to TV based random match ups. Whilst the game was designed to be played in small tabletop leagues it has since evolved and between the various online versions there are over 2 million games played (maybe over 3). I am sure there are far more online games that TT ones played every day and many of those TT ones will be in tournaments which are filled with various house rules anyway.
Now Cyandie and FUMBBL are both pretty close to being fully lrb compliant over the next couple of years we will have access to a huge amount of data that can be broken down and analysed. I always had an issue with the data used to balance lrb6 as I felt the sample was a bit small and not detailed enough as it did not show the TV used or the races played against.
This would have been fine if it was used as a indicator, but sadly with such a small sample there were some aberrations. The horrible nerfing of Khemri for being too good at winning and the silly jump in Necros win rate from the insignificant 10K price drop to golems both spring to mind.
Reason: ''
- Darkson
- Da Spammer
- Posts: 24047
- Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 9:04 pm
- Location: The frozen ruins of Felstad
- Contact:
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
If you mean the data Plasmoid collated for the BBRC, it did and it did.spubbbba wrote:I always had an issue with the data used to balance lrb6 as I felt the sample was a bit small and not detailed enough as it did not show the TV used or the races played against.
As for LRB7 taking notice of online gaming, I guess that depends on whether it's a GW-run update, or a community based one.
If the community do it, then sure, why not, as long as the "fixes" for TV-based MM are in the optional rules.
If GW do it, then it won't, because GW is all about selling figures, hence TT, and because GW know that online players don't buy miniatures ( ).
Reason: ''
Currently an ex-Blood Bowl coach, most likely to be found dying to Armoured Skeletons in the frozen ruins of Felstad, or bleeding into the arena sands of Rome or burning rubber for Mars' entertainment.
-
- Emerging Star
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 5:26 pm
- Location: London, UK
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
It's not so much about fixes for online gaming. More that online gives you a large amount of data that is fairly easy to access.
Reason: ''
-
- Cupcake
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:53 pm
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
Please lets not start back with the Galak hidden vault info. We have no access to that information so we cannot sort through the data to get information one way or the other so it is not helpful. My understanding is that the data that Dodes is speaking about is from (atleast in part) MM system.koadah wrote:cbbakke wrote: Are you still using the win % based on MM games? I thought we agreed long ago those were a bad set of games to pull data from
Nope. Galak didn't have that data as those leagues were not running at that time.
When the data was eventually run it just happened to match the data gathered from elsewhere.
That might partly explain why some people are more likely to listen to Galak than most of the other 'experts'.
Reason: ''
-
- Ex-Cyanide/Focus toadie
- Posts: 2565
- Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:55 pm
- Location: Near Reading, UK
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
When did I talk about data? Darkson did, I didn't, and I think he is referring to this -> http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/LRB6Stats.htm
I don't think that rejecting the Vault is useful at all. Just because we haven't seen it doesn't invalidate it, imo.
Koadah -
I don't think that rejecting the Vault is useful at all. Just because we haven't seen it doesn't invalidate it, imo.
Koadah -
True, but it must be taken in context. Reams of TV-based MM play may not give the same data as lots of league play.It's not so much about fixes for online gaming. More that online gives you a large amount of data that is fairly easy to access.
Reason: ''
-
- Cupcake
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:53 pm
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
TV based MM is not a very good system to take data out of, can we agree on that?
The vault may have had some great data against my opinions, the problem remains that we cannot access it so continuing to revert back to the vault is useless for a conversation. It is like saying that "my uncle Larry knows everything about the topic so we could ask him but he is dead." Maybe Larry did have the answers but it doesn't matter since I have not yet figured out a way to speak to the dead.
The vault may have had some great data against my opinions, the problem remains that we cannot access it so continuing to revert back to the vault is useless for a conversation. It is like saying that "my uncle Larry knows everything about the topic so we could ask him but he is dead." Maybe Larry did have the answers but it doesn't matter since I have not yet figured out a way to speak to the dead.
Reason: ''
- Darkson
- Da Spammer
- Posts: 24047
- Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2002 9:04 pm
- Location: The frozen ruins of Felstad
- Contact:
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
Do you bother to read what people say in reply to you? Dode even put the link in his post.
Reason: ''
Currently an ex-Blood Bowl coach, most likely to be found dying to Armoured Skeletons in the frozen ruins of Felstad, or bleeding into the arena sands of Rome or burning rubber for Mars' entertainment.
- garion
- Ex-Mega Star, now just a Super Star
- Posts: 1687
- Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:59 pm
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
x1,000,000spubbbba wrote:unfortunately they tend to get lost in all the tedious arguing with dode74 (seriously guys, do us all a favour and book a hotel room and resolve your tensions that way).
Reason: ''
-
- Ex-Cyanide/Focus toadie
- Posts: 2565
- Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:55 pm
- Location: Near Reading, UK
Re: Galak's LRB7 test rules coming to FUMMBL
+1.Darkson wrote:Do you bother to read what people say in reply to you? Dode even put the link in his post.
Reason: ''