Zombification

[Mestari]

Raise the dead

We've always used the following raise the dead rules in our league. Anyone using something similar?

Now that they get 4 wights undead teams might get too many good players, but so far this rule has only made the game more fun and has not shown any dramatic problems - after all, to get a good zombie player, one has to kill a player first and then resurrect him.

Every living position player has a zombie version of it, which has -2MA, -1AG and no skills retained except physical abilities and racial characteristics, + gets regenerate:
eg.

Code: Select all

Gutter Runner zombie       7 2 3 7    Regenerate
Dwarf Longbeard zombie:    2 3 1 9    Thick Skull Regenerate
High elf zombie            4 3 3 8    Regenerate

When a player dies and is resurrected, he becomes a player of that position. He also retains all the MA/ST/AG/AV changes, NI's and physical abilities gained during his living career. Naturally he loses all normal skills and SPP's.
So, in the hypothetical case that dwarves could get mutations, a 4-skill dwarf longbeard with +1AG, Horns, Dodge, Diving Tackle, 1xNI, Magic helmet:

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Longbeard          4 3 3 10 Block Tackle TS, Dodge, Horns, Diving Tackle, NI, Mag.helm
after being killed and raised would become
Longbeard zombie   2 3 2 10 Thick Skull, Horns, NI, Mag.helm, Regenerate

Note that he already has +1AG, so you could enforce that in his undead career he can only get 1 point of AG more. Still, he could get a total of 7 skills during his career, so it's useful to kill players who have gained mutations or ST/AG/MA increases.

Real fun, especially to see your old players being fielded against you as zombies

Halfling zombies (3 2 2 6 Stunty, Right Stuff, Regenerate) are really mean
We had a TTM mummy on a team with a halfling zombie...

[christer]

I dunno.. I'd be sniping for ST4 or more players.. Or well, that one-turner gutter runner would be a great addition as a zombie as well.. Running some numbers:

Gutter runner, 10, 2, 4, 7 - +MA, Very long legs, various skills

Gutter Zombie: 8, 2, 3, 7 - Regenerate, Very long legs, +MA

Compare this to a ghoul..

Ghoul: 7, 3, 3, 7 - Dodge

1 MA and regenerate for one ST.. no-brainer decision if you ask me.. Especially since you could make this gutter zombie a one-turner with one additional +MA and sprint...

Another hypothetical variant:

Saurus: 6, 4, 1, 9

Saurus Zombie: 4, 4, 1, 9 - Regenerate

Compared to a regular zombie:

Zombie: 4, 3, 2, 8 - Regenerate

Again, a no-brainer..

I'm sure it would give some flavour to the undead team, but after a while, they would become too good if you ask me. I wouldn't allow this in a league of mine. I might consider it if you added some restriction, such as:

* You may only have one raised zombie at any time

or

* You may not use team rerolls on raised zombies

Possibly both..

But yes, I believe that raise the dead should be made slightly more useful. I believe it's rather useless, apart from the taunting factor of having a zombie you raised from some team play against its former team-mates...

-- Christer

[neoliminal]

We used these rules, but the undead got really over powered. Just given enough time they end up with wayto much ST.

[Mestari]

I dunno.. I'd be sniping for ST4 or more players.. Or well, that one-turner gutter runner would be a great addition as a zombie as well..

Yes, they are nice, but you have to kill them first to get them. Usually not as easy as it sounds.
Yes, some restrictions might be in place if matters get out of hand.
But after all - they are usually not the number 1 contenders for the league trophy, are they? A few good zombies would give them a shot at it.

If you think raising is too easy, perhaps introduce a raise the dead-roll?
Base success on 2+, if modifiers take the score below 1, the raise the dead attempt fails.
Modifiers:
ST4:-1 MA8:-1 AG4:-1
ST5:-2 MA9:-2 AG5:-2
ST6:-3 MA10:-2 AG6:-3

[christer]

Well, no.. I don't think it's too easy. It more or less doesn't matter if you make it harder using rolls though. All that will accomplish is to make it take more time to get to the target.

And as far as undead not being a contender, I think you're wrong. I believe undead teams are balanced in respect to other teams. Given enough matches, the strongest coaches will be topping the league, no matter what team they play.

-- Christer

[Mestari]

All that will accomplish is to make it take more time to get to the target

Could be. But those really good players just don't drop dead easily to be resurrected, and with 4+ regen, after being resurrected they tend to be vulnerable too.


Given enough matches, the strongest coaches will be topping the league, no matter what team they play.

Excluding the extreme cases of goblins and halflings, you're right, but I was simply referring to the fact that looking at the roster, the undead are not the best team - although definitely not the worst.
Giving them a chance at getting some better zombies would not make them too good. Especially if you have to roll to get them.

[christer]

Giving them a chance at getting some better zombies would not make them too good.

I'm afraid I can't agree with you on that one. making the LoS stronger for the undead (you do use zombies on the LoS, don't you?) will make it very difficult to stand up against the undead.. Two or three ST 4 players on the line, and two ST 5 behind them is just scary..

-- Christer

[Mestari]

I'm afraid I can't agree with you on that one. making the LoS stronger for the undead (you do use zombies on the LoS, don't you?) will make it very difficult to stand up against the undead.. Two or three ST 4 players on the line, and two ST 5 behind them is just scary..

There are many things that are scary, but tell me how this would make the undead team too powerful. They don't even have a chance of getting a wizard!
To get those two-three ST4 players they'd have to kill two-three such players. And most likely they would have MA of 2 (BOB) or 3(CW). At the point when the undead team has succeeded in this, what do you think that the average orc or chaos team looks like? A lot more scary, I'm afraid. And the other teams would also have developed more than enough of ways to fight or go around those _really scary_ 2419 Reg black orc zombies...